Family history - John Brown
Genealogy of the Brown, Howell and Dunlop families of Glasgow and Greenock
Great grandfather John Brown was a baker, born in Glasgow, Scotland about 1848.
He was the son of baker, Archibald Brown and Margaret McLay then of Argyle Street.
He, and his brothers, and their sons, ran bakery shops, in Greenock, Renfrewshire, and Ayr between about 1866 and 1901.
The first family bakery business in Greenock was registered to Archibald's eldest son William Brown, but soon after ownership was passed to John.
One family business, Archibald Brown and son, continued to operate until about 1950.
The family think John was a lay preacher, but so far no evidence has been found of that, apart from the photograph opposite.
Here is a list of some of the members of John's family compiled from census returns and the Scottish index of births, marriages and deaths.
Please get in touch if you spot any errors or can add to the family tree.
John Brown snr
married: 22 March 1801, Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Ann Hope Oats
sources: death certificate of Archibald Brown and IGI
Occupation: grocer (source: 1841 census)
b 12 Sep 1801, Falkirk Stirlingshire
married 1828, Glasgow
Ann, Susan, Mary and William
Occupation: tailor (source: 1851 and 1861 census)
b 9 Jan 1811 Falkirk, Stirlingshire
(no marriage found)
occupation: baker (source: 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881, and 1891 census)
b abt 1818, Glasgow Scotland
d 24 Dec 1891, 16 Kelly Street, Greenock
married: 25 May 1840 at St George's Tron Free Church Buchanan St, Glasgow
Margaret McLay, daughter of James McLay, flesher and Mary Peacock
(Margaret was born on16 Apr 1819, Glasgow and died in childbirth on 25 Jul 1865, at 17 West Blackhall St, Greenock)
Children of Archibald Brown and Margaret McLay
b 1841, Glasgow
b 1843, Glasgow
d 1878, Glasgow
b 1845, Glasgow
d 21 Jun 1907, Annfield, Kilmacolm
(normal address 43 Maxwell Drive, Pollockshields, Glasgow)
b abt 1848, Glasgow
d after 1923
b 1851, Glasgow
b1856, Blythswood, Glasgow
b 1861, Ayr, Ayrshire
After her mother died in 1865 Margaret lived with her elder sister Elizabeth (see 1871 Scotland census).
occupation: baker, born about1841
married 25 Apr 1864, Liverpool
Mary Gerrette Graham
Archibald b 1866, Llandudno, Wales
William jnr b 1869, Manchester
James b 1870, Liverpool
During the Great War, William jnr enlisted as private 24770, 22nd Battalion, the Manchester Regiment, and died 20 Jul 1916, Rouen, France, leaving descendants. His brother James died from tuberculosis in 1901.
William Brown snr is not recorded after the 1871 England census (but his wife Mary was).
b 1843, d 1878
married 1863 Ayr, Ayrshire
Andrew Tyrie (born 7 Oct 1841, Ayr, Ayrshire, died 1897 Glasgow)
Andrew was a shopkeeper in Lesmahagow and later a tea and coffee dealer and wholesaler in Glasgow.
Margaret Tyrie b1864, Ayr, Ayrshire
Elizabeth Brown Tyrie b 7 Nov 1861, Lesmahagow, d 1951, Perthshire, Scotland
Archibald Tyrie b 1871, d 1875
occupations: seamstress, wife of tobacconist, born 1845, Greenock, d 1907, Kilmacolm
married 7 Dec 1869, 17 Blackhall St, Greenock Renfrewshire
Alfred Howell (born 1843, Belfast Ireland died 1927, Glasgow) a well known photographer and tobacconist, son of Captain Edward Howell, seaman, merchant service, deceased. Alfred had a shop at 195 Argyle Street.
Edward Howell b1871, Glasgow, d 1925, Montrose
Clara Elizabeth Howell b 1873, Glasgow, d1944, Glasgow, married 1910, John Milwain b1878 of 105 St Vincent St and 10 Bute Mansions, d 30 Oct 1915.
Julia Evelen Howell b1879, Glasgow, d 1957, Glasgow, married 1913, Alexander Mather.
Ralph Vincent Howell b 1880, Glasgow, Bachelor of Medicine, 1905. University of Glasgow, d 1951 Christchurch, Hampshire; married 1908, London, Annie Lillian Clara Mitchell (1885 - 1982) daughter of Edward John Mitchell and Annie Elizabeth Ambler.
Sidney Howell, twin, b 1880, Glasgow (died an infant)
Lydia Howell b 1881, d 1966, Glasgow, married 1912, Pollockshields, Glasgow, George Turnbull Anderson (RCVS), a vet. He was the son of Charles Anderson a Master Plumber, and Christian Drummond of Crieff, Perthshire.
Emily Howell b 1882, Glasgow, married 1914 Robert French Mather
Ellen Belinda Howell b 1883 Ayr, d 1979, Glasgow
Maud Amelia Howell b1884, Ayr
Lilly Howell b 1885, Ayr, married 1919, William Hamilton Martin
occupation: baker, born about 1848, died after 1923
married 29 Oct 1869, Ayr
Helen Cowan Bryce Sloane (born 27 Apr 1844, at 71b High Street, Ayr, Ayrshire, died 2 Mar 1905, at 136 Calabria Road, Highbury, Islington, London)
Helen was the daughter of house painter, John Sloan (also transcribed as Sloane) and Janet Guthrie. John was the son of joiner, Gilbert Sloan and Agnes McClymont (also transcribed as McLement). Janet Guthrie was the daughter of cabinet maker, James Guthrie and Jean Tennant.
(Helen's sister Elizabeth Sloan b1839, Ayr, d 1909, Ayr also married a baker, Alexander Buchanan Dickson, a widower and they had two children Alexander Dickson b 1875 and John Sloan Dickson b 1877).
Children of John and Helen,
1) John Sloane Brown (born 6 Sep 1872, Greenock, d1950, Newcastle, upon Tyne, Northumberland))
2) William Brown (born 3 Apr 1874, Greenock, d1923, Forres, Morayshire, Scotland)
3) Janet Guthrie Brown (born 11 May 1876, Greenock, d1959, Surrey)
4) Margaret McLay Stewart Brown otherwise known as Margaret Stuart, spinster, (born 16 May 1881, Greenock, d 27 Sep 1943, 51 Passmore Street, Sloane Square, London)
Source: Greenock Telegraph
The 1901 Scotland census records John Brown, baker and purveyor, living at 33 Margaret Street, Greenock and his son William next door at number 35, whilst John Sloane Brown is a baker in Prestwick, Ayrshire.
Soon after it appears John Brown sold his business and retired to London to look after his wife who had been disabled by a stroke in 1895 and became further unwell in 1902. Helen died at 136 Calabria Road, Islington in 1905 with her husband present.
By the time of the 1911 England census, all John and Helen's children had moved from Greenock in Scotland to England.
By 1911 John Sloane Brown had become manager of a baking factory, and he and his family were boarding in Trinder Road, Crouch Hill, Islington. William Brown was manager of the Victoria Hotel at Woodhall Spa in Lincolnshire, while Janet Guthrie Brown and her husband Harry were managers of the old Marquess of Granby Hotel at Bamford n the Peak District (near Sheffield) working for the 'Sheffield and District Public House Trust Company Ltd. There is a modern hotel there now.
Margaret McLay (single) was recorded as a 'Lady Help' living in Islington near her brother John. and she seems to have added the forename Stewart to distinguish herself from her cousins.
The London electoral rolls more recently published on Ancestry, indicate John Sloan Brown and his family lived in Islington until about 1932.
Soon after 1911, John Sloan's sister Janet and her family also moved to London, where they lived in Fulham, before moving to Essex about 1932.
William Brown died of an illness in 1923 aged only 49. The Scottish register of births, marriages and deaths records he was the late manager of the Hydropathic Hotel at Cluny Hill, Forres, Morayshire in Scotland, and had been a Captain in the Royal Scots Fusiliers. The hotel later became the Cluny Hill College.
After William died, his wife Jane continued to run the Cluny Hill Hdro until about 1934 when she retired; then Jane lived with her daughters Winnie and Moyra and their families.
William died at the Leanchoil cottage hospital. The registration of his death records his father as John Brown (retired baker) suggesting that John was still living at the time.
Do you know when and where John died?
occupation: baker, b1851
married 15 Feb 1872
Agnes Herbert (born 1849 Girvan, Ayrshire) daughter of joiner Robert Herbert
Agnes Herbert Brown b,1873, Greenock
Margaret McLay Brown b 1875, Greenock
Herbert Brown, b1877, Greenock
Helen Cowan Brown b 1878, Greenock
Archibald Brown b 1882, Greenock
Alfred Howell Brown b 1885 Greenock
occupation: baker, b 1854
No marriage found
occupation: baker, b 1856, d abt 1944
married 22 Sep 1885, Greenock
Sarah Ann Blake, (born about 1861, Portaferry, Ireland), daughter of Customs Officer Edward Blake
The 1911 census lists their children as,
1) Archibald Edward Blake Brown b 1886, Greenock
married: 1918, Ayr, Mary Geddes Elliott
2) John Brown (son of Niven) b 1889, Greenock, baker
3) Caroline Blake Brown b 1890, Greenock, bakery shop assistant
4) Elizabeth (Bessie) McLay Brown b 1891 Greenock
5) Niven Brown jnr b 1894 Greenock, baker
At the time of the 1911 Scotland census the family was living at 43 Prestwick Road, Ayr. Earlier Niven b 1856 had been a baker in Greenock.
No marriage found
occupation: baker and later manager of baking factory, born 1872, son of John
married 1897, St Quivox, Ayrshire
Jessie Isabel Russell (born 1878 St Quivox, Ayrshire, d 3rd April 1958, 11 Grove Avenue, Gosford, Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland), daughter of Land Steward John Russell of Graigie farm.
Jessie Helen Brown b 1899, Prestwick, Ayrshire
Honor Maureen Brown b1903, Prestwick, Ayrshire, d 1984, Newcastle upon Tyne
occupation: baker and later hotel manager, born 1874, son of John
married 29 Apr 1898, Woodside, Ayr, Ayrshire
Jane Kirkland Mills Meikle (born 1878, Wallacetown, Ayr, Ayrshire, died 1961, Aberdeen, Scotland), daughter of builder and Dean of Guilds, James Meikle and Jane Mills.
(Jane Mills was the youngest daughter of William Mills, carpet maker manager, and Jane Kirkland of Ayr).
1) Janie Mills Meikle Brown b 1899, Ayr, d 1948, Inverness, Scotland
married in1929, Leeds, England, James Lindsay D Brakenridge (1900 - 1986). They had two daughters born in 1933 and 1936.
2) Wilhelmina Prideaux Brown b 4th Feb 1902, Greenock, died 1980, Abroath, Angus.
In later life Wilhemina adopted the name Winifred and was known to her family and friends as Winnie or Win. Another branch of the family knew her as Billie, possibly a name used when they were children.
Winnie worked for her mother at the Cluny Hill Hydro until about 1934 when she became manager of the Bay Hotel in Nairn and then she went to a hotel in Stonehaven. At the beginning of WWII she became the manager of the Seaforth Hotel in Arbroath, where she stayed until she got married. She also drove a NAAFI van as a volunteer during the war in her spare time. Winifred married in 1947 Howard Baxter Graham, son of James Graham, farmer, and Louise Will of Mains in Forfar
3) Moyra Noelle Brown b 1911, Lincolnshire, d 1979 Anglesey
married in 1933,Alexander Forbes, son of Alexander Forbes tea planter (Ceylon) and Henrietta Jackson Hardie, late of Aberdeen.
They had two children born in 1934 and 1944
occupation: baker, b 1877, Greenock, eldest son of Archibald Brown
married: 1897, Cathcart, Renfrew, Margaret Lambert
Andrew Tyrie Brown b 1897, Greenock, d 1975, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Archibald Brown b 1898, Greencock
Agnes Herbert Brown b 1904, Greenock
At the time of the 1911 census the family was living at 28 Paris Street, Grangemouth, Stirlingshire.
occupation: baker (1885 - 1967) son of Archibald Brown
married: 15 Sep 1909 at George Square Congregational Church, Greenock.
Agnes Crawford McGlashan (1887 - 1965) elder daughter of Jane C B McGlashan of 5 Robertson St, Greenock and John McGlashan bootmaker and retailer (died 1908).
The couple lived at 28 Esplanade and had a daughter born 14th Sep 1911.
It seems likely that Alfred Howell Brown continued to run the family firm Archibald Brown and Son until the 1950s
occupation:: tobacconist, born 1871, son of Elizabeth McLay Brown
married 1901, Glasgow
Annie Brown Allan Duncan (b1871, d 1914, Glasgow) daughter of John Duncan (1841 - 1908), managing director of tramways and Annie Allan. John Duncan was the son of James Duncan and May Finlay.
occupation: farmer's wife, daughter of Mary Brown
married: 1894, Glasgow
James George Bryden, b 1865, Caputh Perthshire, d abt 1943, son of John Bryden, farmer
Mary Elizabeth Bryden, b 1895, Scone, Perthshire
John Bryden b 1899, Scone, Perthshire
William James Bryden b Scone, Perthshire, d 1986
Just possibly this was the man who became Sir William James Bryden CBE Advocate, appointed Sheriff substitute of Lanarkshire at Hamilton, after war service in 1946, and later at Glasgow. He was admitted to the Inner Temple in 1933 and to the Scottish Bar in 1935.
May Finlay Howell b 1902, Glasgow, d 1980, Glasgow
married 5th January 1927, Glasgow
Ross Munn Dunlop, chartered accountant, b 1886, d 1947, Glasgow, son of Peter Dunlop, master baker
Norman 'Gordon' Edward Dunlop, chartered accountant, b. 1928 Glasgow, d. 1995 Winchester
married 1952, Jean Taylor of Renfrewshire
Gordon worked for a number of companies including BA, and his obituary appeared in the (London) Times.
The 1841 census records Archibald and Margaret Brown, with eldest son William, living in Argyle Street, Glasgow. The 1851 census records the family at 327 Argyle Street, together with Margaret's mother Mary Peacock and sister Elizabeth McLay..
The 1861 census records Archibald Brown and his family living in Newton-on-Ayr, Ayrshire all except daughter Elizabeth, who has stayed in Glasgow with her cousin Ann Niblett, daughter of Archibald's sister Mary.
Archibald's wife Margaret died in 1865, following which the family moved to Greenock.
The 1871 census records Archibald living with his youngest son Niven at 25 Sugarhouse Lane, Greenock. John Brown married Helen CB Sloane in 1869 and they were living at 17 West Blackhall Street. James was staying with his married sister Mary Tyrie in Lesmahagow, and youngest daughter Margaret was staying with her married sister Elizabeth Howell in Glasgow.
The 1881 census records Archibald senior living at 26 Sugarhouse lane, with his sons James and Niven. Archibald Brown and his wife are living at 29 Ardgowan Street, while John Brown has moved to 57 Brisbane Street, Greenock, and is said to be employing 12 men, 4 women and 16 boys.,
The 1891 census records Archibald senior living with his son James at 16 Kelly Street, where he would die on Christmas Eve, attended by his son Archie. John Brown is recorded still at 55 Brisbane Street next door to Archie at 57. Niven married 1885 is recorded at 25 Newton Street.
The 1901 census records John Brown at 33 Margaret Street next door to his son William at number 35. Archie is at 55 Brisbane Street, and Niven at 4 Finnart Road. John's eldest son John Sloane Brown is a baker in the Monkton and Prestwick district of Ayrshire.
The 1901 Scotland census also shows John Brown had a further bakers shop in Kilmacolm, managed by his daughter Janet and son-in-law Harry (see photo opposite).
The shop later became a branch of the Co-op and is now converted to residential accommodation.
The 1911 Scotland census records Niven and his family at 43 Prestwick Road, Ayr. Archie Brown appears to be the remaining baker in Greenock, as the 1911 England and Wales census shows John's family had moved to England.
Trade directories held by the Watt Library in Greenock give further information about the family.
Another family historian has relayed the following information from Greenock resident David Sutherland.
The Brown family bakery operations in Greenock appear to have commenced in the year 1865/66.
Brown William, family baker, cook and confectioner, 45 Hamilton Street. House at Havelock Buildings, 17 West Blackhall Street, Greenock. [
Hamilton Street is now a shopping mall, so the shop, which became John Brown's main branch, no longer exists.
From 1870/71 the details change to, Brown John, family baker, soiree purveyor and confectioner, with the business and house at the same address.
From 1872/73 an additional business is opened at 11 Union Street, Greenock.
From 1876/77 John's house is then given as, Meadowbank, 55 Brisbane Street.
In the 1881/82 directory, the occupier of 29 Ardgowan Street is given as Archibald Brown, baker. In 1884/85 he moved downstairs to number 27. His place of business was given as 26 Sugarhouse Lane.
In 1886/87 Archibald Brown moved to 57 Brisbane Street, John Brown still being shown as living at 55 Brisbane Street.
Archibald's business moved to 16 Kelly Street. From 1897/98 John has an additional business at 5 Rue End Street, and has moved house to 'Helensdene'; 35 Margaret Street.
Archibald junior has his businesses at 8 West Blackhall Street and 13 Finnart Street.
From 1905/06 Archibald still has the business at West Blackhall Street, but his other business is at 31 Brisbane Street. His home is given as 28/29 Eldon Street.
The only baker with the name of Brown that dates onwards is Archibald Brown & son (Bakers) Ltd of 18-24 West Blackhall Street. They continued in business, according to the directories up to 1955.
Niven Brown appears in the directories as a baker as follows:- From 1886/87 at 26 South Street, From 1888/89 at 25 Newton Street. From 1897/98 at 22 Robertson Street. Thereafter his business moved to Ayr.
Niven's sons, Niven jnr and Archibald Edward Blake Brown continued the firm of Niven Brown Family Baker and Purveyor at 35 Burns Statue Square, Ayr until 1937 when Archibald Edward Blake Brown retired from the business and on 28th November 1937 Niven sold the firm to George Malar, pastry baker. (Source: Edinburgh Gazette 22nd June and 30th November 1937).
It is not known why Archibald's eldest son William left after starting the business in Greenock, but he is thought to have married Mary Gerrette Graham in Liverpool in 1864, and lived in Llandudno, Liverpool and Manchester.
Last updated 19th June 2012